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論壇地址：http://www.laaxth.live/bbs/thread-489086-1-1.html

[–]bclagge
California alone is the fifth largest economy in the world.

加州單獨列出來也是世界第五大經濟體。

[–]Rambo272727
They also tend to lie about performance, at least historically.

至少從歷史上看，他們也傾向于在業績方面撒謊。



[–]zeetubes
94% of China’s population lives on the east coast.
I've been to 80 cities in china all over the country on their high speed trains and the network is nationwide with some of the major hubs inland as they also want to focus on transporting goods. Plus they're looking towards the west for future trade. The ride from guangzhou to wuhan is about the same distance as san diego to denver and takes four and a bit hours, It took them less than five years until that route was opened. Surprisingly it's mostly through countryside wherever you go. I'll take the train any day over flying. Whether it would be feasible for the US to build parallel to the existing freeways is worth investigating.

“中國94%的人口生活在東海岸”
我坐高鐵到過中國全國80個城市，中國的高鐵網絡遍布全國，一些主要的交通樞紐在內陸，因為他們也想專注于貨物運輸。此外，他們還把目光投向了未來的西方貿易。從廣州到武漢的距離和從圣地亞哥到丹佛的距離差不多，需要4個多小時，而這條路線開通只花了他們不到5年的時間。令人驚訝的是，無論你到哪里，大部分線路都是通過鄉村。我乘火車比乘飛機更方便。美國修建與現有高速公路并行的高鐵是否可行，值得研究。

[–]upvotesthenrages
Yeah, nobody was arguing that the US is more dense than China.
But the East coast is far more densely populated than Sweden, Norway, and much of Eastern Europe ... yet they all manage to build out their railway lines
The US economy is a $22 trillion giant, you can focus on more than 1 sector of public transit at a time.
If the entirety of Europe can do it then the US should be able to connect the 140 million people living along the east coast

是的，沒有人認為美國比中國人口更密集。
但是東海岸的人口密度遠遠超過瑞典、挪威和東歐的大部分地區。然而，這些國家都設法修建了自己的鐵路線
美國經濟是一個22萬億美元的巨人，你可以同時專注于一個以上的公共交通部門。
如果整個歐洲都能做到這一點，那么美國就應該能夠連接住在東海岸的1.4億人

[–]uniquehorn
displacing people, demolishing homes and historical sites
Necessary evil. The US does have eminent domain concept. So it's not like it's never been done. Rural population is displaced for hydro power projects too.

“拆遷、拆除房屋和歷史遺跡”
這是必要之惡。美國確實有土地征用權的概念。所以這并不是沒有人做過。農村人口也因水力發電項目而被搬遷。

[–]ace121111
As long as it's not you forced out of your home, right?

只要被趕出家門的不是你，對吧？



[–]wasmic
Have you seen Japan's high-speed railway network? Some shinkansen lines are more in tunnels than above ground, due to the mountainous nature of the terrain.

你看過日本的高速鐵路網嗎?由于地形多山，一些新干線更多地是在隧道中，而不是在地面上。

[–]fencerman
There are a lot of plans on the drawing board for creating high-speed rail corridors across populated areas of the US. These correspond to local "mega regions" designated as emerging super population centers and demographic regions.
They just need funding and political will. The big challenge is that US infrastructure costs have been spiralling out of control, because there's a failure to invest, which makes it even more expensive to renew old infrastructure, which encourages even more failure to invest, and so on...

在美國人口稠密的地區，有許多計劃正在籌劃中，以建立高速鐵路走廊。這些高鐵項目是與被指定為新興超級人口中心和人口區域的 “超級都市區”相匹配的。
它們只是需要資金和政治意愿。最大的挑戰在于，美國的基礎設施成本已經失控，因為投資失敗，這使得更新舊的基礎設施更加昂貴，這又鼓勵了更多的投資失敗，等等……

[–]Shelnu
The US really needs to invest in some train travel. One of our biggest problems is that the country is so big
In the US the politics are so fucked up and greedy that this will never happen. Costs will increase state by state until the price becomes too much to pay for land.

美國真的需要投資一些火車旅行。我們最大的問題之一是這個國家太大了
在美國，政治是如此混亂和貪婪，這永遠不會發生。成本將一個州一個州地增加，直到土地價格變得無法支付。



[–]reddit455
plain and simple.
population density. it's a must.
plus it's communist. government say build. they build.. too bad if your house is in the way.
Beijing Subway gives 3 BILLION rides a year
Population US - less than 400 Million.

原因顯而易見。
人口密度。這是一個必須的前提條件。
北京地鐵每年載客量達30億人次
而美國人口不到4億。

[–]Luxypoo
I'm literally posting this from a bullet train. Went from Beijing, to Nanjing, to Shanghai in 4.5 hours. I don't really want to look up the total distance, but it's really far. Edit: 1380km/858mi. Total cost $77 USD.
Trains are amazing and one if my favorite things about China.

我現在就在子彈頭列車上發貼。從北京到南京到上海只用了4.5個小時。我不想看總距離，但確實很遠。PS：1380公里/ 858英里。總票價77美元。
火車很神奇，是我最喜歡的中國東西之一。

[–]RapeMeToo
That's amazing! Can't wait to ride them next spring while I'm in China.

那太神奇了！等不及明年春天我在中國的時候坐坐它們了。

[–]flexylol
What you don't realize is that it's you who is romanticizing Western capitalism. China sure has "issues", but doesn't change the fact they're lightyears ahead of the West in many aspects, and progressing at an insane speed.

你沒有意識到是你把西方資本主義浪漫化了。中國當然有“問題”，但他們在許多方面領先西方N光年，并以瘋狂的速度前進，這一事實不會改變。

[–]Ze_Hydra1
China sure has "issues", but doesn't change the fact they're lightyears ahead of the West in many aspects, and progressing at an insane speed.
Like stealing technology and ignoring copyrights. Their railway infrastructure is stolen Siemens tech.

“中國當然有‘問題’，但他們在許多方面領先西方N光年，并以瘋狂的速度前進，這一事實不會改變”
比如偷竊技術，無視版權。他們的鐵路基礎設施是偷西門子技術來的。

[–]springlord
Or so you'd think. If being lightyears ahead is stacking people in concrete towers watched by A.I. cops and cameras as long as they are obedient, and concentration camps when not... Maybe I'd rather stay behind and enjoy... Building shiny things is easy. To do it in an environment-friendly, lasting way, whilst respecting the quality of life of the population and especially the minorities, this is difficult.
If you were banned from riding the new super train (or actually, banned from leaving your house) through the US just because you wrote something against Trump on Twitter, and you realize all of this was built only to break after a few years anyway, would you still think of it as progress?

或者你會這么想。如果領先N光年就是把人堆在由人工智能警察和攝像頭監視的混凝土塔里，只要他們聽話，而不是在集中營里……也許我寧愿留下來享受……打造閃亮的東西很容易。但在尊重人民特別是少數民族的生活質量的同時，以對環境無害和持久的方式進行這項工作是困難的。
如果你被禁止乘坐新的超級列車穿越美國（或者實際上被禁止出門），就因為你在推特上寫了反對特朗普的話，或者你意識到這一切都是建立在幾年之后就會壞掉不能用的基礎上的，你還會認為這是一種進步嗎？

[–]grundar
If being lightyears ahead is stacking people in concrete towers watched by A.I. cops and cameras as long as they are obedient, and concentration camps when not... Maybe I'd rather stay behind and enjoy...
Wouldn't you prefer that the country which is lightyears ahead is not the country stacking people with A.I. cops and concentration camps?
If your view of China is that dystopian, shouldn't that be motivation to make sure the West stays ahead technologically?

“如果領先N光年就是把人堆在由人工智能警察和攝像頭監視的混凝土塔里，只要他們聽話，而不是在集中營里……也許我寧愿留下來享受……”
難道你不希望前方領先N光年的國家不是一個充斥著人工智能警察和集中營的國家嗎？
如果你對中國的看法是如此的反烏托邦式的，這難道不是確保西方保持技術領先的動力嗎？



[–]Tyler1492
This should worry anyone who prefers democracy to totalitarianism
You're aware that the United States has supported countless dictators and made their reign of terror possible over the last century all over the developing and underdeveloped world, right?
Also, with regards to technology allowing surveilance akin to that of 1984, it is US companies like Facebook, Google, Amazon and Microsoft that are making it a reality.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like the Chinese government. But I don't think China as a world leader is going to be any worse than the United States (which has been plenty awful).

“這應該讓任何一個喜歡民主而不是極權主義的人感到擔憂”
你知道美國支持了無數的毒菜者，讓他們的恐怖統治在上個世紀在所有的發展中國家和不發達國家成為可能，對吧？
此外，在允許進行類似1984那樣的監控的技術方面，Facebook、谷歌、亞馬遜和微軟等美國公司正在讓監控成為現實。
別誤會，我不喜歡中國。但我不認為中國作為世界領袖會比美國更糟糕（美國已經夠糟糕了）。

[–]SumDumScientist
I'm extremely doubtful. The risks of disaster rise exponentially with speed, while the rewards of more speed show severely diminishing returns.
If a maglev train hits a flock of ducks or a stone from a passing truck at 350km/h that is damage but not a disaster. If it hits them at 1000km/h that is entirely different.

我非常懷疑。災難的風險隨速度呈指數級增長，速度越快，回報越低。
如果一輛磁懸浮列車以350公里/小時的速度撞上一群鴨子或一輛經過的卡車上的石頭，這是損失，但不是災難。但如果它以1000公里/小時的速度撞擊它們，那就完全不同了。

[–]combatsmithen1
The difference between the US and China is that China can invest in these projects because they have a 3 trillion surplus while the US is 22 trillion in the hole. In addition they can probably do it way cheaper than any US governmental body. We've screwed ourselves over and the 21st century will be China's century.
Also the US is less densely populated

美國和中國的區別在于，中國可以投資這些項目，因為他們有3萬億的盈余，而美國有22萬億的負債。此外，他們可能比任何美國政府機構都能更便宜地建高鐵。我們搞砸了，21世紀將是中國的世紀。
此外，美國的人口密度也較低